73. Why Letting Go Hurts: The Neuroscience Behind Downsizing

Have you ever picked up an object, decided to let it go — and then picked it right back up again? That's not indecision. That's your brain doing exactly what it was built to do.

In this episode, Jodi and Heather pull back the curtain on the science behind why downsizing feels so hard — and why you're not weak, disorganized, or "too sentimental" for struggling with it. From the brain's threat response to Nobel Prize-winning research on loss aversion, this episode validates what you've been feeling and gives you something even better: a path through it.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why your brain perceives change as a threat — before you touch a single box
• How physical objects activate your memory, identity, and sense of self
• Why letting go literally activates the same part of the brain as physical pain
• What nostalgia is actually doing in your brain — and how to work with it
• Why couples often fight during sorting (and how mirror neurons are partly to blame)
• The surprising neuroscience behind why clearing space feels so good
• 6 brain-friendly strategies that make sorting easier — backed by research

Take a listen to find out what's really going on in your brain when downsizing feels impossible.

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Transcript

Jodi Rosko 0:01

Welcome back to another episode of the Downsizing Roadmap Podcast with your hosts Jody Roscoe and Heather Fisher. We're talking about all things downsizing, from our own experiences with clients to guest experts. Let's make downsizing easier, one conversation at a time.

Heather Fisher 0:17

Hi, welcome to Downsizing Roadmap Podcast. We've got some science today.

Jodi Rosko 0:23

I know, I think it's so interesting.

Heather Fisher 0:24

Yeah, one of my favorites because we all feel all these emotions and the brain and the human body and all of that and how it connects is just fascinating.

Jodi Rosko 0:36

Yeah, and I think sometimes if you understand why you're feeling the emotions, then you can handle it in a different way. So I think it's super cool.

Heather Fisher 0:43

Makes it easier to get through for sure. So we're gonna talk today about why letting go hurts and the neuroscience behind downsizing and some of the benefits uh that truly help your brain at the end too, once you get through it. So I'm Heather Fisher. I'm Jody Roscoe. And we're excited to dive into this today. Um, this uh episode, like Jody said, gives you just permission to feel the feelings that you're gonna feel. We're gonna talk about a lot of different ways. Um it's a lot more than just um what we've talked about before, decision fatigue. We'll talk about that a little bit, but there's so many layers um going into the whole picture and why um we can feel overwhelmed, why can we can feel tired by it, um so many things.

Jodi Rosko 1:35

Yeah, yeah. Like attachment, loss aversion, you know, there's so many memories and emotional regulation, which I think um I think that is a big struggle sometimes because your brain is doing all kinds of crazy things, and we'll tell you exactly why. So okay, so um number one, why you know downsizing feels emotional before you even start. Like your brain is wired for energy conservation and familiarity, right? So um when it sees something new, it kind of is like danger, because back in the you know, caveman times, that was terrifying, right? You could die if something, you know, new snuck up on you. And so our brains are still kind of wired like that. So when you think, oh, I'm gonna change my whole life, it's like, wait, hold on.

Heather Fisher 2:21

Yeah, those dangers you know can in in situations be major life-changing uh dangers, but our brain just reacts to all the mini little danger signs all day long. It's why you, you know, see something that you don't want to trip over and your body has a reaction and when I go when in the car something happens and when you're in passenger trouble. Yes. I've been there and been in trouble for that. Um but those are all our brains' reactions to danger signs. And when you don't know what's coming next, that's a major uh red flag raiser for your body that's just like I can't settle on this because uh I I like what I'm familiar with.

Jodi Rosko 3:07

Yeah, it perceives it as a threat. So it perceives change as a threat. Um and also it it's a high cognitive thing, right? So it it takes energy to think about all of it. And so um, and that makes you uh nervous and gives you anxiety and you know kind of makes you scared about that. So um when when you have predictability and safety, then that doesn't seem as as that does that's not very uh cognitive, high cognitive thinking. If you're trying to, you know, figure out a problem or change something, lots of cognitive thinking. And your brain likes to rest in a place that is easy.

Heather Fisher 3:49

Easy and familiar and all of those stressors that you're feeling before you've even gotten started by just thinking about that overwhelm, um, even if it's not affecting your day yet, um, those are all normal. And what we talk about often in our class is that taking the the fear of unknown out and starting with that dream of what the next step is is a way to regulate um that fear.

Jodi Rosko 4:19

Right, and information. Information helps you let go of anxiety. Yeah. Um and then once you um it cortisol spy so don't think that just the change like you're you're just fine where you are and it's easy on your brain um a hundred percent, because yes, that's true in the whole moving around and whatever, uh changing your location possibly, but if you're really cluttered in a really cluttered space, that does take up brain capacity as well. Um and so you might think you're okay, but once you let you know clutter declutter the space, you'll actually be in a better place. And so um you don't you probably don't even notice how much that's bothering your brain. So UCLA had a um had a study that found that clutter increases cortisol li levels in women. I know we've talked about that um before, but clutter actually get increases our threat response to things. It feels like overwhelming. Yeah. And so um just because change seems hard, not change can also be hard. So you know, you're just sitting in it in a familiar place, but you're sitting in stress.

Heather Fisher 5:28

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so um the next part, your brain and your stuff and why objects feel like part of you. Um, our brains store memories through association. So that can be objects, that can be smells, that can be the spaces that we live in. Um though those are the retrieval cues for our brain to bring back a story or or to bring back a moment. Um, and you know, I was thinking about this, and you know, I have a memory box of things all the way from high school or college or whatever, and I can remember stories around those things, but there's so many other stories that I don't have an object for. Yeah. Um, so it's just those cues to bring up um time in life, and uh, but balancing that with how much you have and which part of that is just the most um, you know, memorable trigger that you want to keep versus everything.

Jodi Rosko 6:31

Yeah, and if you need a trigger for something, if you have some large piece of furniture, let's say that doesn't, you know, fit in your new place or whatever, but it has memories around it, if you take a picture of it, you won't have that thing anymore, but you'll still have a cue, right? Yeah. So the picture can be the cue to remember it, even though it's you don't need the whole physical thing. Um and so just yeah, they've done studies where um there's big brain words, right? Your medial pre prefrontal cortex, which is your the part that helps you process um self, like your it lights up not only for you, but it also lights up for your stuff. So when you have memories about you, it will light up, but when you have memory, when you see your stuff, it will light up too. And so it can feel like letting go of your stuff is losing a little part of you because it's that's how your brain is working around the stuff. But if you can find a way that you're keeping cues for things that are super important and realize that things that aren't super important don't don't really make you light up at all, you know, that's how you can help sort sort your things out and have less of them.

Heather Fisher 7:39

Yeah, the objects can be a shortcut to the memory, but they're not the memory itself. So you're just choosing those key items back to that word we've used plenty of times. You're curating um just that that path back to those memories without taking the bulk that is negatively affecting you with the stress hormones and the clutter and the overwhelm.

Jodi Rosko 8:01

Right. And so you have to find a way that it doesn't feel like you're losing part of your identity around it. So either that's writing down the story around something so that because the story we we say over and over is the most important part, right? Or having the cue to figure out how to remember that. Um and then in all of this, s there is also that endowment effect that we've talked about before, which is once we own something, then we feel um we feel like it's important, more important to us. And they have done studies around that too. So once it's yours, your brain boosts its importance, and that's simply because you own it. It could be something it could be a roll of toilet paper, it could be something that is absolutely not, you know, important at all. Um but because it's yours, then your brain thinks it it is, you know, tells you it is more important, and it's called the endowment effect. And I know we've talked about that a lot.

Heather Fisher 8:54

Yeah, we talked about that study with the coffee mugs where um two groups of people, one group uh was given a coffee mug, you know, five minutes ago, here's a new coffee mug, it's yours now, and the other group was given twenty dollars, and then they were told, uh, you know, asked each group, the ones who had the mug, how much would you sell this mug for? And the group that had the cash, how much would you buy that mug? You know, how much of your new $20 would you spend on that? And the people who owned the mug for five minutes. Right. Their price in their mind to give it up was double what the people with the cash. And it's so interesting because they just suddenly had that, well, it's mine, I don't want to give it up. Because it's mine. Yes.

Jodi Rosko 9:44

And it didn't even have a story behind it. No, other than it was handed to me five minutes ago, that was the story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So your brain does some crazy things um to to make sure that you keep things that might be useful for you to survive when you're a caveman. And we just have so much now, so much that we don't need all of those things, but our brain is still working that way around all the things.

Heather Fisher 10:09

Yeah, we've talked um questions to ask before, and I think a question, you know, would I buy this again is a great question on some of those items that aren't super sentimental, but that you have that ownership feeling of, well, I I have this. Yeah. And and that's a good question to take you off that ledge of, well, if I wouldn't even buy it again, it's okay. Someone else could use it.

Jodi Rosko 10:33

And I think this is um part of when people uh talk about how they feel guilty about letting things go. Um, it's part of this. Like they're, you know, they're feeling like it's theirs, and so, you know, giving it away you know, makes them feel not great about it.

Heather Fisher 10:50

Yeah, I feel like it's that feeling of I I don't know, mm maybe it's just me, but like I feel like I know inside I probably didn't need this when I bought it. And now I feel even more guilty if I don't find the perfect spot where someone needs it or whatever, and you know, just need to move past those decisions and and just try not to make them in the future.

Jodi Rosko 11:19

Right, right. But it's already been made, and so that's the other thing. The money's been spent, it's already been made. Yeah. So, you know, keep keeping it and then having stress around that is is a cost that's not worth it because you've already, you know, you've already made that.

Heather Fisher 11:33

It's not yeah, it's not serving you, and it's not serving uh someone who could use the stuff if you moved it on. For sure.

Jodi Rosko 11:41

Um right around the corner from uh endowment effect is loss aversion. Um so you know, it feels like you're losing more than you actually are. Um and we there was a behavioral scientist, um, Daniel Kahneman, who said um that humans experience loss twice as intensely as gains. So when you buy something, you you feel happy, but when you let it go, you feel twice as sad as you did when uh as the amount of happy you felt from buying it.

Heather Fisher 12:13

Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 12:13

Um or twice as much loss. And so that's why things come into our house, come into our house, come into our house, and never go out of our house.

Heather Fisher 12:23

Because we enjoy that feeling of getting something new and you know, we want to avoid that feeling that feeling of letting it go because it's not not equally ranked. Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 12:36

So even if the object, you know, it has low actual value, um, the emotional value makes the brain resist it. And the emotional value can be, you know, financial, it can be that endowment effect, it can be all of those things, but but you're feeling it twice as much as you were feeling getting the object. So interesting.

Heather Fisher 12:58

Yeah. And in downsizing, the cost of letting something go um can often feel greater than the benefit of what you feel like you're gonna gain. You haven't realized those gains yet, and you're experiencing all the the feelings of letting go, and that's a hard place to just keep powering forward through.

Jodi Rosko 13:19

Yeah. So the insula is the part of the brain that's linked to pain and it activates during loss. So you are literally feeling d discomfort or pain um around it. And so um your brain is constantly doing like risk calculations. And so if you pick something up and then you're like, oh, I don't know, like whatever, and then you put it down and then you pick it up again, that's your brain doing risk calculations about, you know, is that pain that I'm gonna feel of loss, you know, worth it and do I need to keep it and all of that. Like your brain is an incredible place.

Heather Fisher 13:54

Well, and I love how much our brains want to protect us, right? And you know, do all of that. And sometimes we just need to fight a little bit through that over protection.

Jodi Rosko 14:05

Right, because your brain thinks everything's dangerous because it wants to keep you alive. Yeah, honestly. Like so and these are not life and death situations or decisions, but our brain isn't processing like that. It's just processing like you have this and you should not let it go because you, you know.

Heather Fisher 14:21

The neurons are bouncing around, indistinguishable between the real danger and the small perceived danger, honestly. For sure. Yeah, you're just overloading them in these big processes sometimes. Okay, so the next thing we'll talk about is memory, nostalgia, and the sentimental brain. Um, so this um, you know, we have dopamine that hits us. Um, you know, it it's that warm feeling from many different things, mood boosting and making us feel that little surge of happiness when various things happen. And anytime we're visiting something nostalgic to us, you know, those happy memories and those reminders, we get those little dopamine hits. And so that makes it especially challenging to go through um, you know, boxes of things and and memory and sentimental items. You may be looking at things in a box that you haven't seen in 10, 20, 30 years, so you weren't really feeling emotional about it. Right. And then you pull it out, and that boost of nostalgia that you get when you're holding that item gives you that dopamine hit, and it's like a a false attachment because you enjoyed that momentary dopamine and you want to feel that more. So you think, oh, I love this, I want it. Um, and it's easy to forget the time it was in storage, in an attic, in a basement. Where it didn't miss it. Yeah, and so that's something to push through as well.

Jodi Rosko 15:57

That's another one of those like memory cues. Like you, if you had something else that would cue that memory, then you don't need to keep that thing, even if it's a picture of of the thing. So um, so um nostalgia's good for you. It's emotionally healthy, you know, and uh keeping uh every object that uh makes you nostalgic is not is not sustainable, right? So um so somehow you have to find a balance between those things, and I think that's where you kind of come in, where that whole legacy thing comes in. It's like what what which memories are super super important to to keep and which memories are not. Um and my daughter was laughing at me um when I was, you know, going through some things and telling her stories and then letting them go. And it was like as I'm telling the story, um it wasn't it didn't seem that important to me. Like I knew the story of it, but that wasn't that important of a story. So once I've said it, I can let it go. And I that's an interesting um I that I didn't expect that to happen that way.

Heather Fisher 17:02

Yeah, it reminds me of um, you know, we were teaching a class recently on uh downsizing your photos and going in depth on that. And we were talking about starting at the beginning of what's the purpose of how you will best enjoy them as the end result, not just um reducing them. But I feel like that plays into this that you want that that constant dopamine or good feeling about the nostalgia. So how can you curate the items into something that can be displayed and managed and in your life, um, you know, whether that's a a photo frame or you know, one teacup and saucer from a a vast collection that reminds you of the other, so that you are um getting that surrounding of all of those memories, but in a way that you can still manage your house and it's a great, you know, f space to live in and you're not overwhelming yourself or paying for storage that you don't need and burying yourself and then not getting the nostalgia either because you can't enjoy it.

Jodi Rosko 18:14

Because you're you have so much anxiety of all the stuff that's around. Or it's packed away somewhere where you can't see it, or yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Heather Fisher 18:22

So narrowing that down.

Jodi Rosko 18:24

Yeah, just nostalgia is a gift, but we have to figure out you know what your brain just isn't very good at deciding which thing is more important than other things, and so you have to do some work on on that. So um while you're doing that work, um, decision fatigue uh that your your brain is is a real thing. It's a real thing. And um an average move requires between 2,000 and 5,000 micro decisions, and sometimes more if you've been in a house for a really long time. Um you're making decisions on so many things. And your brain just every every decision, actually what happens in your body, every decision drains glucose and oxygen from your prefrontal floor cortex, which is your brain is working hard burning calories, which is why when you've sit sat and done something like that, you feel like I just sat all day, like what what's the problem? And your brain is actually burning calories trying to make the decisions. Um and so when it's depleted, um uh then uh your amygdala gets louder and that's the part that makes you feel overwhelmed. And it's like i i it you're once you kind of deplete your your uh 50 50 decisions is kind of the number. Um once you kind of deplete those, then um accuracy and patience significantly decline.

Heather Fisher 19:48

Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 19:49

And so um if you're uh in a place that's why we say like 15 minutes a day, you know, just get in a habit and just kind of do that. But if you're in a place where you really have to do a lot at in a short amount of time, I think um sometimes if you can batch things together so that they are all, you know, one decision instead of a decision on every single thing. Um or uh if there's certain things that that are really uh things that you need to go through and you need to move now, um I I would take them and uh go through them later. And I'm talking probably about like pictures or letters or things that are, you know, uh uh hard to go through and will take a lot of time and will take a lot of that energy of decision making.

Heather Fisher 20:34

Yeah, at the very least, um if you are on a time crunch and can't um listen to that decision fatigue as well because you just need to get done, at least structure in some breaks, go for a walk, you know, refresh your your brain a little bit, um just clear your head so that you can get back into making those decisions out of the proper mindset and not just out of exhaustion and frustration.

Jodi Rosko 20:59

Yeah, so in downsizing when you ask, you know, should I asking yourself, should I keep this like hundreds of times, um, your brain is like, Whew, you're making me tired, like you're exhausting me with this. And so what usually happens is the answer is yes if you don't know, because no is a harder decision, remember, because it's twice as hard to say no, you know, meaning let it go, than yes to keep it. And so if your brain's tired, then your brain's just gonna be like, Yep, just keep it all, I can't deal with this.

Heather Fisher 21:29

Like Yeah, it's gonna search to protect you. Yep. And uh, you know, we've talked about that. You're feeling overwhelmed, your brain is gonna do whatever it can to get you back to that regulated, um, calmer position. So in that moment, yes, keep it is the easier answer to get you back to those um good energy feelings, but in the long run, it leaves you with the clutter that brings you the stress and the cortisol. So it's really, you know, just a process. And we understand why everyone feels that it's overwhelming.

Jodi Rosko 22:05

Well, and when you create new habits, your brain grows new pathways. And so it's not that you can't get out of it, and it will feel a little painful because you're doing things that are hard, but when you're doing things that heart, you're har are hard, your brain is growing new pathways for that. And so what if you get past that, you know, I call it the breaking waves, right? Like you're in a and they just keep hitting you and hitting you and hitting you. But if you keep being consistent and get past that and get into those smooth waters that you can kind of drift over those, you know, not quite waves yet, um, then that if creating a habit of cleaning out every 15, you know, 15 minutes every day will be that. You're just drifting over those waves and you're kind of doing it and it's fine. Um, but in the beginning it's gonna feel hard.

Heather Fisher 22:55

Yeah, it's those daily habits for going through things and the daily habits for just kind of resetting so that it doesn't build back up again in in your space.

Jodi Rosko 23:07

Right. And that will be a pathway. The uh 15-minute declutter will be a pathway for you so your counter won't ever look again like it's full of mail and all that stuff. And actually what'll happen is that'll irritate you as if it starts to pile up and you'll need to get rid of it instead of right now if that's what your counter looks like. You're used to it and it's causing you mental stress, but you are just used to it, so you put up with it later, those pathways won't let you put up with it. It'll be like, ugh, I can't, this has to go.

Heather Fisher 23:35

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jodi Rosko 23:37

Yeah.

Heather Fisher 23:38

So another thing that we can face uh through this process is the identity shift that we don't like to think about, but our physical uh space can represent so many of our roles uh parent, host, the fixer, the caretaker, the collector, the entertainer, all of those things that our house defines us as. And so we're again protecting ourselves, you know, going through this process. If you're making a move, it can trigger the same reorganization as other milestones when you retire, when your kids graduate, when you have your first child, um, when you get married, all of those milestones are identity shift time periods. Um, but this one for downsizing is so anchored to a space you may have been in for a long time that it feels much more difficult to make that shift. Um and so going back to what we've talked about so much, um, defining that next chapter first is so important because that gives your brain an identity to anchor to the new place as you the new place, the new what you want your days to look like, what you what social calendar you envision at the new place, what hobbies, um, all of that. Once you've thought about that before you get started, then all through the process your brain can start anchoring to that and helping you with the decisions versus hanging tight to the only safe place it knows because fear of the unknown is.

Jodi Rosko 25:17

Yeah, and you if you haven't done that dreamy, you can't visualize it because you aren't you don't know what, right? And so um again, information is is the king of you know helping with that. But if you've gone out and said, okay, this is the community I want to live in, or this is, you know, I I I can see myself in a ranch, you know, house, like whatever, what you can start visualizing all of that, and your body or your brain can say make place-based um memories, not not quite memories yet, but uh but anchor yourself, like you said, to those visualizations that will become your your new place.

Heather Fisher 25:53

Yeah, absolutely. I think this can go um in uh initial phases too when you're thinking about if you were the host for all the holidays and instead of just focusing on losing that, you know, space or doing that anchor to what the next holiday looks like, even if it's different. Like I can't wait to go travel to you know my daughter's house and help her host in their beautiful home, or I can't wait to uh you know, till we have it in the dining room at my new community. And you're just kind of anchoring on that next vision instead of focusing on the loss. Yep, yep.

Jodi Rosko 26:35

Yeah, because it downside it, it's not losing your identity, it's creating, you know, a new one or updating it. You know, though you're still gonna be you, but there's you know, you're there'll be a fresher new look on it, I guess, right?

Heather Fisher 26:48

So yeah, we've talked about that in other episodes where those character traits that led you to those identities, um, those don't ever leave you. So it's just looking on how do you incorporate those into some change in that role. Um, but you are you, and you know, that's wonderful, and and that will all carry on in a different way.

Jodi Rosko 27:12

Right.

Heather Fisher 27:12

So why do couples feel this differently? Yes. We just did many of a few a few episodes on this, but one of our recent episodes was on um this this disagreement or this complexity of two different personalities working through this and opposites attract. Yeah. And the science of that is you know that each person's brain has different sentimental activation points. And so um, you know, sometimes um studies show more predominantly that men attach meaning to functional items, maybe tools, lawn care, you know, those type of things. And uh women tend to attach meaning to more relationship-linked items. So those are more the memory items, the decor, the uh photos, things like that.

Jodi Rosko 28:05

Gifts they were given. Yeah.

Heather Fisher 28:07

Um, but even if it doesn't quite follow those those gender lines um in your relationship, it's very likely that it's different one way or another.

Jodi Rosko 28:18

Well, and because of that, like we've seen this so many times. Like, they'll be like, Well, we can't move, you know, well because he has junk.

Heather Fisher 28:28

Yes.

Jodi Rosko 28:29

And then he'll go, Well, she has junk too, but her junk are her treasures, and his junk is his treasures. Yeah, but to her, his junk is her, yes, exactly, is junk. And so, um, but that's because their brain is connecting to different things to, you know, have attached their meaning to, right? Yeah. And so they can't see why would you need all that as tools, or why would you need, you know, all those pictures or letters or, you know, like whatever it is. Um, and so everybody's brain it you know has different activation points, whether you know, it's gender-based or not. But um, and so, you know, we have a mismatch of emotional responses and that they feel like conflict, right? Because they're they feel like they don't understand um why. Well, and somebody likes something and somebody likes something else.

Heather Fisher 29:22

Yeah, and that's why I love episodes like this when we're really getting down to science, um, you know, it can help you understand where your partner may be coming from or some of the things happening. You know, does that mean the two of you need to to dream a little bit more together and remove some of that fear? Or, you know, do you need to talk more about what are those um shortcuts or triggers to bring some of that nostalgia with you without all of it?

Jodi Rosko 29:50

Or tell your stories around the things about like why that's important to you and what story it brings out or what cue it brings for you. Um and then also s our our neurons mirror of other people's emotions, right? And so um during a conflict, so if one person's having anxiety over it, then the other person will mirror the anxiety, you know, which in any what in any conflict, whether it's over downsizing stuff or not, is what you know escalates um you know arguments, um, is that mirroring somebody gets emotional and then the other person gets emotional back, you know, that anxiety is mirrored. So um try not to do that. Try to try to understand, come a place from a place of curiosity, and if you what they are trying to save seems like junk to you, maybe just ask some curiosity questions about what it is that you know that that's resonating, why is that resonating with them?

Heather Fisher 30:50

Yeah, and some solution-based curiosity of how can you, you know, if staying where you are doesn't make the most sense, how can you get past both the not wanting to get rid of something and also the need to move forward?

Jodi Rosko 31:07

Well, and the number of those things, right? If it's a hundred teacups, like do you need that many or you know, whatever, or tools or whatever.

Heather Fisher 31:14

So Yeah. Okay. So we've had lots of science we've talked about so far confirming that downsizing is hard or change is hard. Um let's talk a little bit through some science that shows the benefits. That is worth it. Yeah. Because it definitely is. I mean we uh meet so many people and help so many people through this process. And as hard as it is in the moment or feels before you've gotten started, every single one of them says they wish they'd done it sooner.

Jodi Rosko 31:43

For sure. So and I think that the going through the things that your brain are doing is doing to tell you it's hard, um, maybe can help you realize it's not, it's just your brain kind of reacting that way.

Heather Fisher 31:55

Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 31:56

Yeah. Yeah. It's once you know how what it's doing, then you can kind of be like, oh, yeah, okay. I think that's a good thing. That's just because I own it, but I don't actually need it. And you know, whatever. So tell yourself those things. But anyway. Okay, so um decluttering and simplifying increased dopamine um and serotonin uh due to more predictability and reduced sensory load. So so meaning we're oversensitized, like when we have too many things around us, right? And clutter um uh feels like chaos. And so um then it's not as predictable. So when you have less things, um then you you're less there's less sensory response to the things that you have, right? And um and you it's all more predictable and when you you don't lose things as easily because there's not so many things to search around and all of that. So um so you get in increased dopamine and serotonin by having it be clean and I think um anybody who's had a really messy space and then cleaned it up, everybody I think feels like, oh, that feels so much better. Yeah. Right. And so that's what you're that's what you're going for in the end, no matter how hard it is to do it, in the end, that's how you're gonna feel. You're gonna feel like, oh, that feels so much better. And it's true because it it your brain is actually responding to the clutter in a negative way and to the peacefulness in a positive way.

Heather Fisher 33:23

Yeah, absolutely. And we know the studies show um you know people in a decluttered environment can complete tasks 20% faster and with fewer mistakes. So even just having that calm, emptier space, you can function better on all the other things you do in your daily life.

Jodi Rosko 33:44

Yeah. Um there's a part of your brain called the anterior cingulate cortex, and what it does, it's like a bridge between um your thinking brain and your emotional brain. And in MRI studies, it showed that it becomes less activated after you let go of excess, um, meaning that you're you have lower stress and uh more mental clarity, and you can literally see that on an MRI, um, which is super interesting. So your brain really is agitated and then calming when you let go of things and have a cleaner space.

Heather Fisher 34:18

Yeah, absolutely. Your brain performs better with less and letting go is good medicine. I, you know, as we were looking into some notes for this episode, I want to dig deeper. I mean, as we get older, our brains have, you know, different levels of problems with dementia or Alzheimer's and things, and it would be so uh curious to see. I'm sure there's a connection where it just helps our overall brain health, which we need as we get older, and it's just declining naturally anyway. So if you can set yourself up for that longer health and brain health, I I say go for it.

Jodi Rosko 34:57

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so some practical brain-friendly ways that making letting go can make that easier. So um limit sorting sessions to 60 or 90 minutes. Um we're saying 15 minutes a day, but if you're actually like gonna dig in and you know do a big project, um, 60 or 90 minutes and then go take a break, get some lunch, do something different. You know, we talked a little bit about that, but give yourself um because that aligns with your natural cognitive stamina cycles, like it allows you to make those, you know, number of decisions that you can make, and then decision fatigue will set in and you need to just walk away from it and you know, stop for a little while, get yourself some food, maybe, you know, get yourself some more energy while your brain is burning all those calories. Yeah. Um you can use category sorting, um, like all the linens or all of the um serving bowls or all of the you know, whatever pick if pick of topic, but you can put them all together. Um, and we were talking I was talking about this a little bit earlier, kind of categories things in a group so that you can make one decision about it instead of lots of decisions about them.

Heather Fisher 36:02

Yeah, once it's all piled together, you can say, okay, I need three sets of sheets. What are my favorites? What are my favorites? And you don't have to touch everyone individually and make an individual decision. So, I mean the percentage of decisions you're just cutting out is a lot, so it leaves room to get through more faster.

Jodi Rosko 36:23

Yeah, so the way that you would do that, and we talk we talk about this often too, is like go through your house and get everything of that category all together in one place so that you know. So because if you're like, oh, I need three, and then you've done that from the linen closet, but then you had sheets in a in a you know, bedroom closet somewhere, whatever, now you've messed up your three. Like now you've got to be.

Heather Fisher 36:44

Well then you just forget about that whole process and you're just like, oh, I like these, these are pretty. Yeah. And they get added to the pile and you find another one. Oh, yeah. I remember when I bought these. Uh oh, yeah, these work great on that bed. And you know, suddenly then you have six instead of three.

Jodi Rosko 37:01

Exactly. Um and you'll be surprised at how many of everything you have when you put it like that. You're like, oh gosh, this is more than I need, right? So yeah.

Heather Fisher 37:10

We discovered that with like pool towels when we moved. I mean, we don't have a pool at our house, and we don't have little kids that go, you know, to the pool daily. And I mean, just because of different places where they'd been put, because we didn't use them that often, I think we ended up, you know, I don't know, probably 20 pool towels. And we had cut them down to the ones we were keeping, and then we were finishing going through stuff at the storage, and I found a bag with you know, like eight more. And I'm like, somebody can use these, and we do not need 28 pool towels.

Jodi Rosko 37:47

Right. Okay, so um another option is use physical distinct, right? We this is the maybe box. We talk about the maybe box all the time, right? Um, and so you you can um this is getting around that loss response. Um, so if you put it in the box, you feel the loss response, um you close up that box, you put a date on it, you know, six months from now. You can only open that box if you know exactly what's in there and you really feel like you need it, um in those six months. And if you haven't opened that box in six months, you do not open the box, you've already gone through the things, you've already let them go. Opening it again and starting over is just again, you'll have that same loss response again. So um all you're doing here is you're thinking, I don't think I need this, but in case I do, then I'll give myself a little time and if I have to pull it out, I'll c I'll go get it. Yeah. Um, this can't be with everything. This can just, you know, you don't want a thousand maybe boxes, you know, in your garage. But um if you're really, really struggling with a decision, that can help you feel that loss and then get past it and not not remember what's in you probably won't even remember what's in the box, obviously.

Heather Fisher 39:02

And that's the key is not opening it back up and getting that dopamine hit of nostalgia.

Jodi Rosko 39:07

Yeah, and not writing on the outside every single thing that's in the box so that you remember what's in there. Like the theory, yeah.

Heather Fisher 39:13

Take it shut with a date on it and know that you've already gone through it, doesn't have, you know, gift cards or checks or money. You know that it's okay to go as long as there was nothing you needed to go seek out from it.

Jodi Rosko 39:27

Yeah. So um an idea too, you can take pictures of the house before you um before you actually start sorting things. Um, and so that will give you that touch point of of lots of things so that you can recall those and you know, feel that emotional, you know, nostalgia about it. Um before so before you sort a bunch of stuff, take some pictures of it, and then that keeps you in that recall mode and and you don't have to keep it all because you can look at the picture.

Heather Fisher 39:57

Yeah. So name the story of the item out loud. I mean, you can tell us again how you did that with your Christmas ornaments, but um you know, saying that that story out loud causes your brain to have to define that story and you're kind of internally ranking, like, oh, that's not as important as I thought. Right. This is easier to let go, or you're deciding this is something so important to me, these are one of the things to keep.

Jodi Rosko 40:27

Yeah, because everything probably does have a story, but the story may or may not be important.

Heather Fisher 40:33

Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 40:34

Right. So um that's what I found was a lot of times the story wasn't important. Like I, you know, I got this Christmas ornament um on a on a present and it was free from, you know, Nordstrom's just some like so it doesn't have any let the present itself, it was just, you know, tied to it or something, you know.

Heather Fisher 40:54

Yeah, it's that same theory of um when you say to not just flip through your closet and look for things to give away, but take everything out and look at each one. It's that same um, you know, exercise. You're taking each one. Can I tell the story about this? How does that story sound out loud to myself? Is it important? Is it not important? Right. Um, it's a great way to help make that decision. Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 41:20

And then decide the purpose of your next chapter first. We've talked about this a thousand times, but um it's the dream it phase. So your neuropsychology study uh in 2022 found out that um a defined future self increases following through on hard decisions by 48%, right? Because you can visualize what's happening next and it reduces the fear.

Heather Fisher 41:40

Yeah, the science behind our steps.

Jodi Rosko 41:42

Yep. There really is.

Heather Fisher 41:43

Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 41:44

Yep. Okay, so um you're not being ridiculous and emotional and all of those things. This is how your brain is working. Um and so you just kind of have to work with it.

Heather Fisher 41:55

Yeah, with understanding comes the power to get through it and to realize what's happening and to know it will be okay on the other side.

Jodi Rosko 42:03

Yeah, and to realize your brain's just trying to protect you, but also you're gonna feel fantastic when you've let it go.

Heather Fisher 42:09

Yeah, absolutely. If we can help you with any of these steps or talk further about how to help you get through them, please visit our website, downsizingroadmap.com. And if you're ready to dip your toe into getting started, um go and ask for our free downsizing guide. That's at downsizingroadmap.com backslash guide. And um if you're ready to connect with us or one of our trusted partners in your area, that is downsizingroadmap.com backslash help. Yep. Talk to you soon. Thanks, guys. Thanks for joining us on the Downsizing Roadmap Podcast. If you found this episode helpful, be sure to subscribe, leave us a review, and share it with someone who might need a little downsizing inspiration. Have questions or ideas for future episodes, reach out to us on our website, www.downsizingroadmap.com. Until next time, let's keep simplifying and moving forward.