15. Shifting Gears: Knowing When It’s Time For Seniors to Stop Driving

Is it time to talk to a loved one about giving up the keys? This episode of The Downsizing Roadmap Podcast explores one of the hardest transitions families face: deciding when it’s time for a senior to stop driving.

Our guest, Mark Healy of Senior Care Authority in the Dayton/Cincinnati area, shares expert advice from the Beyond Driving with Dignity program—a nationally recognized resource designed to help families evaluate senior driving ability with compassion, dignity, and objectivity.

Whether you’re concerned about a parent’s safety behind the wheel or preparing for a future conversation, this episode offers practical guidance, emotional insight, and helpful resources for navigating this tough but necessary topic.

🔑 In This Episode:

• The emotional and practical challenges of senior driving
• How to know when it’s time for a senior to stop driving
• Signs of declining driving ability and red flags to watch for
• How to talk to a loved one about driving without damaging your relationship
• What to do after the decision is made—support systems and transportation alternatives
• What the Beyond Driving with Dignity self-assessment includes
• How families can work with professionals to reduce conflict and guilt

💡 Key Takeaways:

• Loss of driving can feel like a loss of freedom—acknowledge the emotion
• Objective support from trained professionals helps reduce family tension
• Planning ahead can make the transition smoother and less traumatic
• There are safe, respectful ways to approach this sensitive issue

📚 Resources Mentioned:

• Beyond Driving with Dignity – Cincinnati, OH
• Senior Care Authority Cincinnati
• DownsizingRoadmap.com – for podcast episodes, events, and workshops

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Transcript

Jodi Rosko 0:01

Welcome back to another episode of the Downsizing Roadmap Podcast with your hosts Jody Roscoe and Heather Fisher. We're talking about all things downsizing, from our own experiences with clients to guest experts. Let's make downsizing easier, one conversation at a time.

Heather Fisher 0:17

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Downsizing Roadmap Podcast. We are here with another guest today. We're really excited. We have Mark Healy with a Senior Care Authority, but he is also certified in Beyond, let me get this right, beyond driving with dignity, correct? Yes.

Mark Healy 0:35

That is great.

Heather Fisher 0:36

Awesome. So that's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah. I'm Heather Fisher. And I'm Jodi Roscoe. And we're real excited to dive into this topic because I think that driving for seniors can be an important topic for families that might be hitting that milestone. So let's dive in and talk about that, Mark. Yeah. Yeah. A little hard conversation, maybe sometimes, yeah.

Mark Healy 0:57

Oh, very hard. Yeah. Very hard.

Jodi Rosko 0:59

Yeah. So um how did let's just start first. How did you get into having this business? You're, you know, talking about driving with dignity. How did it, how did you come to that?

Mark Healy 1:09

Um well, uh five years ago, Rachel and I started um senior care authority. Uh my background is physical therapy. I was a physical therapist for 40 plus years, started in college athletics, moved into outpatient, then went to skilled nursing um and really developed uh a love of working with the older client, older patient. Uh they're fun to push. Uh and um sassy sometimes.

Jodi Rosko 1:37

Oh.

Mark Healy 1:38

Yeah, we stubborn and sassy.

Heather Fisher 1:41

It is fun.

Mark Healy 1:43

We we've enjoyed each other. Um, but uh then uh we were introduced to uh Beyond Driving with Dignity uh from a franchise in St. Louis. She said, Hey, you gotta contact this retired Ohio Highway Patrolman in Cleveland who has put together this program called Beyond Driving with Dignity. He was realizing as he walked away from your home telling you that your loved one had just been killed, either they were a senior driver or they'd been killed by a senior driver, that uh he said there had to be a better way as he was walking back to his cruiser. So he put together this program to help the older senior driver uh stay safe and to keep the other people on the road safe. So he certified us, uh gosh, back in COVID. Yeah. And uh and then it was such a significant program that the franchise we purchased actually purchased the program from Matt. And so now it's part of Senior Care Authority.

Jodi Rosko 2:46

Okay, so it's a franchise in and of itself.

Mark Healy 2:49

Um it used to be.

Jodi Rosko 2:50

Oh, it used to be.

Mark Healy 2:51

It used to be until it was bought by Senior Care Authority.

Heather Fisher 2:54

Oh, gotcha. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about what the program entails. Is it just having the conversation with seniors about how to stay safe if they're going to continue driving or having that it's time to, you know, stop driving? Tell us about the program itself.

Mark Healy 3:13

Sure. Um it's a three-hour program. Uh I usually go right to the senior, uh, whether they're living in a community or living at home. Uh I often say that major decisions in life are made at the kitchen table. So it's a one-on-one, me and the older driver. And um thank you. Um, and we will uh just cover um it the first part is a learning conversation. Um when I was in physical therapy working with the older adults, I often would say they really don't care how much I know until they know how much I care. Right. So the first part of of the self-assessment, we call it a self-assessment, is uh just learning about them, asking questions, checking their memory, how many grandkids, when did you get married, what did you do professionally, those kind of questions. We also talk about driving, their driving history. We talk about any medical issues they might have. We also talk about um we we cover some uh cognitive exercises. So we'll go over a couple cognitive exercises. If after that period of time I feel that they're safe to drive, um, and that period of time, that learning conversation and those exercises are all paper and pencil. So they're very familiar, it's just a piece of paper and a pencil. So it takes away some of that anxiety of maybe a computer, you know, a computer test, computer exam, and those type things. And then if I think they're safe and they have a valid driver's license and insurance on the car they want to drive, we'll go for a short drive. Then we'll come back and the senior and I will have a discussion, we'll make some recommendations. Interesting. We're all at risk. As soon as we get behind the wheel of a car, we're at risk for an accident. Now there are some people that are at a moderate risk, and those people have uh we recommend they modify their driving. My 90-year-old mother in Houston, Texas, modified self-modified her driving. She didn't drive at night, didn't drive in the rain, never drove when there were school buses on the road. So all of her appointments, hair appointments, doctor's appointments, everything was between 10 and 2. Um, and so those people are recognize they're at a modified risk. There was one time I asked my mother, I said, Mom, why don't you drive at night? She says, Mark, I can't see at night. I said, Good, Mom, don't drive at night.

Heather Fisher 5:53

Excellent job. What kinds of things are you seeing when you're out doing that that short drive that you know decide where on the scale someone would be modified or hey, maybe we shouldn't be driving anymore? What what are you looking for?

Mark Healy 6:10

Well, that's an excellent question. Um one of the things that happens when you have cognitive challenges is that they tend to drift. So if they if they're drifting from the lane, that's a big time red flag. If they're slowing down for a red light a hundred yards before the light, that's a red light. We've had I I was riding with somebody in the uh Col Rain uh Cincinnati area, and uh we typically don't talk to them while we're driving, but I asked a question and she almost came to a stop to answer to answer the question. She couldn't multitask. So she was either driving or talking. Talking, and she couldn't do both. So those are the things that we're looking for. Matt tells a story about a gentleman. Uh, they went for a ride, it was a beautiful sunny day, and the gentleman turned on his windshield wipers. And Matt asked why he was turning on his windshield wipers, and he really didn't have an answer. Uh this same gentleman turned left, it was a multi-lane intersection, he turned left from the far right hand lane in the intersection. Um, and uh shortly after that, Matt asked him to stop the car and they were gonna change. Matt was gonna drive home. So, you know, there are times when it's time to say, hey, I think I'll drive us home.

Jodi Rosko 7:41

Yeah. Did he know it, you know? Are they self-aware around it or not? No, no.

Mark Healy 7:48

And it's interesting you asked that because Matt uses that as an example. He his his wife and his oldest son said, Dad, you should stop driving. Stop driving, Dad. We feel like you should stop driving. But when Matt came back, the guy said to Matt, Why do you want me to stop? Why did we change drivers? He said, Well, one, you turned on your windshield wipers and it was a beautiful sunny day. Two, you're drive you're drifting. Three, you turned left from the right lane and you're a terrible driver. And he got home and put the keys on the counter and said, I'm done driving. Told his wife, I'm done driving. And what they the the daughter, what the son and the m wife had never done is given him objective reasons for stopping the drive. He says, You know, Matt, if I'm that terrible of a driver, I shouldn't be driving anymore for my safety and other people.

Jodi Rosko 8:51

I also think though, like I it's not family that they're hearing. Was that what you're gonna say? It's not family that they're hearing it from sometimes.

Heather Fisher 8:58

You know, we say on a lot of text that third-party voice sharing the information sometimes goes a lot further than the spouse or the kids.

Jodi Rosko 9:09

Oh, who keep saying it and have said it. And and I get that they're they're just saying don't drive and they're not telling him why. And I get that that that resonated. And I think that is super great information, helpful information. But I also still think sometimes if it's just the people that you know, like you may not be quite as receptive as to an expert.

Mark Healy 9:29

Yeah.

Heather Fisher 9:30

Yeah.

Mark Healy 9:30

Oh, absolutely.

Heather Fisher 9:31

Do you think that that is in your experience a common reaction that once people go through that evaluation that they can take that information and stop or modify, or do you get a lot of resistance to your advice?

Mark Healy 9:46

Oh, I would say 20% of the people we work with are driving, whether you tell them they're terrible or not. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Jodi Rosko 9:54

Right. You leave and they're still going to drive.

Mark Healy 9:56

Oh, absolutely. And then you uh the best part, it's interesting because the best part of the self-assessment is the last 15 to 20 minutes. Because what we do is we bring the family in. So up until that time, it's just one-on-one. Got it. Then the last 15-20 minutes we bring the family in and we allow the older driver to tell the family kind of what we had what conclusion we had come to. If the conclusion is we need to stop driving, then I turn to the family and say, okay, how do we get mom to hairdresser? How do we get mom to mass? How do we get mom to meet with the gals or dad to meet with the guys at McDonald's on a weekly basis? Because that is one of the main concerns is independence. People don't want to give up their driving because they don't want I mean, everybody's working. So they don't want to rely on their kids, they don't want to rely on, you know, they don't know what they're gonna rely on to get. And that I think we have found uh just with recent history that isolation is terrible.

Jodi Rosko 11:06

Yes, we've talked about that a lot and how uh COVID just isolated not everyone, but our seniors especially, and and it was not a good outcome. That was not a good outcome.

Mark Healy 11:18

Yeah, you you need to find, and and that's really the program, is find out where they're at and then come up with some solutions to help that individual become stay independent.

Jodi Rosko 11:33

Well, and I think that's what you were saying. Sorry, Heather, I think I keep cutting you off. But I think that's what you were saying before. They they didn't give him concrete reasons why he wasn't driving, but they probably also didn't give him the next part, which was okay, if I'm gonna stop driving, now what are we gonna do?

Heather Fisher 11:48

So I think facilitating that conversation is I think that's probably the missing piece in a lot of families that may be trying to have these conversations on their own is that there's not that follow-up strategy that you know all of the independence doesn't have to go away. We have a plan for getting you to these various things, and here's exactly what that looks like. And I think too, we have just in serving seniors over you know the last five or six years, we've met so many people, and I didn't realize um just in communities local to us that there's a lot of transportation um available. I know some of the senior rec centers around us, the cities have senior services, um, you know, not income-based or anything like that, just a need um where that you could help uh that family member that's no longer gonna drive. It doesn't necessarily have to be that full weight falls on the family. There could be neighbors or you know, other people still driving that are going to the same places. If you just help put that plan in place, it could really work.

Mark Healy 12:58

Well, it it it's interesting. I had a gentleman that um needed to retire from driving. He said, How do I keep meeting up with my veteran friends at McDonald's? And you know, you just reach you you really just kind of have to reach out to those men and say, Hey, can you just swing by and pick me up?

Jodi Rosko 13:18

I still want to be involved, but I have to r retire from driving because of the I think that w uh lots of people, but that generation are especially doesn't want to bother anybody. Like there's a lot of like, I just don't want to bother my kids, I don't want to bother any, you know, anybody. And so tell you know, having them be like, that's okay, and I'm sure their friends would be happy to pick them up, right? They just don't want to ask.

Mark Healy 13:44

Well, I think we're all kind of resistant to accepting help. Yes, you know, it it's just church, you know, somebody's sick in your family, and people, can we bring meals over? Uh you know that's okay. In the back of your mind, you're going, yeah, yeah, yeah. But up front, you're going, I don't know that I want to do that. And it is very difficult. Yeah. You just have to, you really have to highlight the importance of it. Um, you know, Matt tells a story uh early on with the program where he had this young lady, she met him at the door, she was 85 or something, uh, she was up there, met him at the door, never made eye contact. She was mad right from get-go. And um, she sat down. By the time they were done with the learning conversation, she was crying. She said, Matt, I'm not safe on the road, it's obvious. Uh they didn't even get on the road. And uh, Matt brought the family in. And the family got involved, grandkids got involved, neighbors got involved, the church got involved. Matt called her three months later, just for a follow-up, said, How are you doing? She said, I'm exhausted.

Jodi Rosko 14:55

Everybody's taking her everywhere.

Mark Healy 14:56

Well, Matt thought maybe she was sick or something, but she says, I've never been this socially engaged in my entire life. Yeah. So, you know, it really is once you break through and see that, you know, you you were it it we have a slide that says uh on one of our presentations that says, if you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you can't. And the idea is, you know, you can go from the driver's seat to the passenger seat and be chauffeured.

Jodi Rosko 15:28

I mean, you know, that's actually my life, just in case you're wondering, because my husband loves to drive, and so he drives everywhere. And now that my kids have learned how to drive, they want to drive. So I basically hardly ever drive unless I'm driving by myself.

Mark Healy 15:41

You've become the queen.

Jodi Rosko 15:42

Yes, I am the queen.

Mark Healy 15:44

And the queen should be driven from bodies to bodice.

Jodi Rosko 15:46

Yes, we were just talking about it in the family the other day. It was like, yeah, I've I mean, I'm fourth on the list to drive. So it's Mark and then the kids, and then it's me. Yeah.

Mark Healy 15:55

Well, there you go.

Jodi Rosko 15:56

It's fine. I'm good with it. I don't mind. Yes.

Heather Fisher 15:59

Until you chauffeur me around once we go on appointments. Yes, we do that. Yes. So do you find that more times than not it's the family reaching out to you first and bringing you in, or do you have seniors that you know know about your program because of presentations you do, or how are you getting in front of people?

Mark Healy 16:20

I would say it's 50-50. Um a lot the older drivers, uh, there's two reasons the older driver calls us. The older driver says, we had one uh young lady in her 80s, uh, just had a birthday. Family called her up and said, now, mom, that you're 85, you shouldn't be driving anymore. And so she called me and said, Hey, I'm sharp as a tack, and she was sharp as attack, and she was a good driver, except for roundabouts, but we worked through that. Those are hard for everybody.

Heather Fisher 16:54

They're new to our area. Those are hard for all of us.

Mark Healy 16:57

And and the other group of the older drivers that call are the ones that have had the neuro been to the neurologist or their family practitioners has said, you know, I really think you should get this checked out before you continue to drive. The other 50% are the adult children. That um, you know, there might be some dissension in among the family. Uh the daughter says mom shouldn't be driving anymore. The son says, let her drive. She's fine. She's fine. And so then we we can come in and just really objectively say, modify, stop, or just keep doing what you're doing.

Heather Fisher 17:34

I love that your program has um the way it's structured, with so much time, you know, one-on-one in that consultation with the senior, without the audience of everybody watching the cognitive tests and and the conversation and that high pressure of everybody is, you know, waiting for me to fail at this. And it's so personal and and you know, dignified for that person to go through it, but then having the family at the end so that when you leave, everybody's on board with what's next or what is recommended and and hopefully can wrap around that person and make it a success. And I think if you were missing either of those components, it just would feel like ganging up on somebody and taking something away versus making a plan to keep everything they love just in a different fashion. So I think that's awesome.

Jodi Rosko 18:30

And I think when like it sounds like the beginning part, the cognitive part, and even the driving part, um, there are great places for people to self, you know, realize themselves without you even saying it. Sometimes they won't, but it sounds like sometimes they do. You know, they you don't even have to say it because you've given them an opportunity to kind of give themselves a little test and they know, hey, I'm not doing great at this. And so um, and so when people figure it out for themselves, it's so much more powerful than when somebody's telling them, Mom, you can't drive, mom, you can't drive. But if they've figured that out on their own, you don't really there is no more work, they've already done it.

Mark Healy 19:13

Well, and that's the hope. That's why it was that's why it's titled A Self-Assessment and It's Beyond Driving with Dignity. I tell people, you know, I can end either one of your driving experience, of course, unless you're being chauffeured. Yeah, I mean, I'm queen, right? Yeah, well you can end it with a tow truck. You know, I can end my mother, my mother in Houston, Texas. I can end her driving career. Take the car. Just take the car. There's no dignity there. Right. There's no plan, and you need the plan. It's uh one of the interesting things is the National Highway Traffic Safety Association says that if we all live long enough, we'll all outlive our safe driving by seven to ten years. So we're terrifying. Well, we tell we tell people, you know, plan. You need to have a plan because if you do live long enough, even if you're cognitively normal, you're going to your reflexes just aren't there anymore. You're gonna you're gonna end up where you're just processing slower. It's interesting. I saw a a test where they took a a college age student and they took a uh an 80-year-old and they gave them the same test. And the college age student whipped it off in 15-20 minutes. The older person took 45 minutes, but they both scored identical. So it isn't a matter of not having the wisdom or the knowledge to do things, it's the processing um of that information.

Heather Fisher 20:46

Yeah, yeah. So um do you have any tips for people who are just looking, you know, to have the conversation with their parents um and get get it started? I think, you know, just showing up with you and toe would not go over well either. So what never has mom? What does that process look like? Um are you reaching out by phone to the senior so they know what's ahead, or how does that typically you know come about?

Mark Healy 21:23

Well, if it's you know, obviously it's the senior calling me, we'll explain the entire program. If it's the adult child, um then we'll just say these are the suggestions I would make. Um they've probably had the conversation if to if they're to this point, they've probably had that conversation with mom or dad. Yeah, yeah. Or their doctor has had that conversation and they feel some, you know, some pressure to, hey, I can do this type thing. So yeah, it's it it it's both ways. We do want them to understand. What's going to happen? That the older driver, if it's the adult children, the older driver typically has some resistance because they really don't want to know. Or in the back of their mind, they know what the results are going to be.

Jodi Rosko 22:16

Yeah, so they're afraid of the results. They're afraid of losing their freedom. What else? What are the other things that you see?

Mark Healy 22:25

Independence is huge. They're afraid of being told by their adult children who they changed their diapers that they need to do anything, which our parents don't want to hear anything from us.

Jodi Rosko 22:39

They don't want the changeover to being the kid and not the parent. Their kids parenting them.

Mark Healy 22:44

And we have found that when uh they're afraid of isolation. They really are. They may not be able to articulate that, but they're afraid of, you know, uh, I go to the doctor on a monthly basis. Who's going to get me there?

Jodi Rosko 22:59

Yeah. Or just I will be alone because I won't be able to go anywhere. I'll be stuck in my house.

Mark Healy 23:04

Yeah. And you know, there's there's a study out of Harvard that says isolation is worse than smoking 14 cigarettes a day.

Jodi Rosko 23:12

Wow.

Mark Healy 23:14

So you've got uh you've got you know, I was listening to one of your podcasts of uh Bethany Village. Yeah. And uh I I had to turn it off just before she answered the question of what would an individual gain by moving into independent living. Yeah. And it's the socialization, it's the the the having other people your own age, it's all of those positives that my mother, when my mother had a stroke in Houston, is what ended up, we ended up moving her. And when she got to a building, uh, it was assisted living, and she got her medication on time and got her three meals, she improved. Yeah. So now, how does the individual who can no longer drive get their meals, get their food? And the older population doesn't understand that their neighbor, where the every week the Kroger truck stops in front of their house.

Jodi Rosko 24:13

Yeah, they can't be ordering their stuff online.

Mark Healy 24:15

They don't they don't understand some of that stuff. It's interesting. We we ordered stuff from my mom from Cincinnati to Houston. We just call up.

Jodi Rosko 24:24

The groceries are on your front porch, go get them. Yeah, yeah. I saw them on that ring doorbell installed, right?

Mark Healy 24:32

But but those are those are the things, you know. How am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do this? I'm just gonna be sitting here all alone. And one of the major concerns, and we've found it again, unfortunately, with COVID, is they don't go to their doctor. So if they have a problem, it doesn't get taken care of right away. They don't go to the things that they need to take care of. And so that's a big thing.

Heather Fisher 24:59

I think speaking to a lot of our listeners who may be those adult children, that that point is just needs hammered home, that you can't you can't take away from your parents' independence without a plan in place as a family to fill all those gaps. And so it's easy to say, oh, mom should not be driving anymore, it's not safe, you know, dad shouldn't be on the road, but you have to complete that circle and fill in the gaps either with family members or with services that you manage the services because our seniors can't, like you said, order the delivery or all of that. So if if some of those services are filling the gaps, you need to be in charge of making sure they happen, making sure their medication gets picked up from the pharmacy, making sure they get to their appointments and don't leave it with a well, you just you can't drive anymore, mom, and then walk out the door and say, Okay, I'm busy. You know, it has to be a full plan.

Mark Healy 26:05

Well, that's the easy way. Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 26:07

So if the family isn't around, some people don't have family, or uh isn't able, what other ways are you finding to help people get where they need to be?

Mark Healy 26:18

Well, um uh Dayton RTA uh has uh service, they'll go door to door. Uh it's a ride share, so you'll be sharing that with other people. Uh there's an app called GoGo Grandparent. Um that's fun. I haven't heard of that. Where you can, you know, the adult children can set it up. Uh the nice thing about that is they'll alert they'll alert whoever you need to alert. I'm at your mother's home, I picked her up, I've dropped her off at Walmart. She said she'll be done in an hour, and they can just kind of follow mom. Uh there's um the the commercial uh taxis, and it's yeah, yeah, like Uber's Uh, Uber, thank you. Uber, um, and those type things. Yeah, the different counties.

Jodi Rosko 27:06

Which is great because we didn't used to have that. That didn't used to be a thing. But Uber, I mean Well, we had taxis. Yeah, but I mean, you in more more urban areas, yes. Not as great in rural areas, but yes.

Mark Healy 27:18

Yeah. So, you know, and you know, it's interesting. I have a neighbor uh that has uh been diagnosed with a vision challenge, so he can no longer drive. But he goes to the community center, the Warren County picks him up for a buck fifty, takes him to the community center, picks him up two hours later after he's walked his five miles, and drive and drives them home for three bucks.

Jodi Rosko 27:45

That's great.

Mark Healy 27:45

You know, so there are things out there you just have to So city county kind of things to check in to be. City County, community centers.

Jodi Rosko 27:53

Yeah. Um and it may be time, I mean, we were talking about the independent living places, but it may be time to have a bigger picture conversation about what that looks like because they have um, you know, ki they take people everywhere, right?

Mark Healy 28:07

So absolutely. You know, we've been to communities that um have a 20-mile radius. Yeah. So they'll take a client to a doctor's appointment. We were talking to one community. Uh the family lived about 15 miles away, but he would drive to their house for Sunday dinner.

Jodi Rosko 28:26

Every Sunday.

Mark Healy 28:27

Every Sunday. And the community said, No problem. We'll take them. I love it. And it's like, well, there you go. Yeah. You know, that that eliminates again, you become a king or a queen and you get chauffeured around.

Jodi Rosko 28:42

Right.

Mark Healy 28:42

Um by and then having the socialization with the family.

Jodi Rosko 28:47

Yeah, so sometimes maybe the driver is a c driving is a catalyst to a bigger conversation. Maybe not. Maybe they're good and they just need to, you know, figure out a plan and stay at home. But sometimes it could do that. The first step for sure.

Mark Healy 28:59

Yeah, absolutely.

Heather Fisher 29:01

Looking at changes ahead.

Jodi Rosko 29:02

So if you're um if you're the adult parent or kid and you haven't really broached the conversation, you're seeing signs that maybe you feel like they can't they they shouldn't be on the road, w what do you say? What are the right things to say? What are the wrong things to say?

Mark Healy 29:18

We always encourage the adult children to speak in objective terms rather than, you know, dad, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like. You know, dad, the neighbors told me that you ran over their mailbox again. Again. You know, your neighbors called and said you backed into their car and you didn't know it. Um, Dad, you know, my buddy is on the police force and they said they ticketed you again. Um, those are the type things. Um, there was a family in Atlanta. Um, the the adult children lived in St. Louis. They went home for Thanksgiving, and mom's car looked pretty beat up. It was just an older car. So they went over out on Thanksgiving and bought her a new car. They came back at Christmas, and it looked like someone had taken a snow shovel to her car. And it was they just recognized that it was time for mom to retire from driving because some of the older drivers, I was reading an article about um an older driver in a uh parking lot that hit uh somebody and just didn't accelerate away, didn't try to hide it, just didn't really know it happened.

Jodi Rosko 30:40

That's scary.

Mark Healy 30:41

And um, you know, and just drove so that it's really that they have a decrease in perception, they have a decrease in hearing, they have a decrease in vision.

Jodi Rosko 30:50

It could just be medication, too. Like there's a lot of medication.

Mark Healy 30:54

Do you want to go there?

Jodi Rosko 30:56

I mean, if that's what we think we should.

Mark Healy 30:58

Well, we we refer to it as poly polypharmacy. Polypharmacy is five or more medications. And uh, you know what happens, and I use this uh analogy, is um I get bit, I have an allergic reaction, I go to my doctor, he gives me a medication. That medication causes a side effect, so I go to a different doctor, that doctor gives me a medication to cover that symptom, and then I got pounding headache, so I go to a neurologist and their neurologist gives me a different medication. They did a um they did a uh survey and they found that 94% of adults, older adults, do not realize they're taking medication that affects them while they're driving. Either causes drowsiness, causes a decrease in peripheral vision, causes all kinds of different things that'll affect you while you're driving. Absolutely dizzy. So those are things that we even cover. We ask them for a medication list in our self-assessment. And then I go home and say, you know, I plug it in and see if any of them, and that's one thing an adult child can do. We recommend perhaps maybe a geriatric pharmacist look at the list because you may have several physicians uh if you don't have a physician kind of managing their medications. You might want the a pharmacist to look at them and say, hey, mom's still driving, we've modified her driving, but do any of these affect her driving? Yeah. One of the uh Parkinson's di Parkinson's medications uh causes drowsiness. So when do you take them? Yeah, you know during the day, yeah. Yeah, and you know, are you driving after you take the medication?

Jodi Rosko 32:56

Yeah, my grandma was on, I don't know, like twelve or thir, I don't know, there were so many bottles. She didn't drive. But but I mean, that has to just affect all of you know everything, all everyday things. And then you wonder, does she really need to be taking all of that medication? But that's another one of the things. That's another problem with the pharmacy.

Heather Fisher 33:15

I mean rarely, you know, you are seeing a lot of specialists, you know, at that stage of life, and rarely are they meeting together and looking at how what they prescribed might interact with what someone prescribed for something unrelated, but it stacks up, and it's rare that you have someone look through the whole list and say this is you know what all of this together is causing. So that's a great point that it should be looked at for sure. Absolutely.

Jodi Rosko 33:45

How do kids stay supportive without sounding like they're accusatory, or you know, how do you stay supportive for uh for your parents?

Mark Healy 33:53

Well, I think you know, we hit on it earlier. It go in with objective findings and then go in with a plan.

Jodi Rosko 34:01

There you go. The plan.

Mark Healy 34:02

If you go in with a plan, Dad, McDonald's weekly is important, haircut weekly is important. We understand all those things. We're all working. We understand you don't want to really use us because we're all working, but this is the plan. We're gonna use neighbors, we're gonna use grandkids, we're gonna use the numerous kids that are local, and we are going to keep you independent and we are gonna get you to the places where you need to be. We want you to be safe.

Jodi Rosko 34:37

And I think a lot of um a lot of us adult kids, um, we can m manage that into our schedule if we know what it is. So if you get your you know, if you go to McDonald's every Wednesday, you know, at a certain time, like we can do that, like because we know that that's what it is. It's harder to do things randomly. So the schedule is probably pretty important. Absolutely. Yeah.

Mark Healy 34:59

Absolutely. They they just it's communication. Yeah, yeah. It really is. Dad, uh we're concerned about you. We are approaching this because we love you. And because we love you, we want you to be safe, and because we love you and want you to be safe, we need to know where you need to be and when is that, and we don't want to control you.

Jodi Rosko 35:26

Right.

Mark Healy 35:27

We don't want to control you.

Jodi Rosko 35:29

Because that's how they feel.

Mark Healy 35:30

Absolutely. Yeah, but we want to enable you to do the things you still want to do and yet be as independent as possible.

Heather Fisher 35:39

I think proactively calling, whether it's weekly or you know, looking ahead at the month to what do you have going on this week that we can get you to, is so much better for the relationship than the senior having to consistently call their kids or grandkids with a need. It just changes that whole dynamic of, you know, what's going on this week, how can we get you there and and plan it week by week if you have to, outside of the consistent things, what appointments do you have or or not. But one thing you've said a couple of times that I just wanted to say I love is that how you're phrasing it as retiring from driving versus stopping driving. That word change just is exactly what this process should be. You know, it's not that you I don't know, it just has this a whole different meaning that it's something you did well for your whole life and you enjoyed and it was part of your life, and now you're just retiring from that and moving to a new phase. It's not something that you have failed at and you have to stop. And I I I love that that's how you phrase it.

Mark Healy 36:50

Well, in and it's you know, go back to the National Highway Traffic Safety Association. Dad, mom, if we live long enough, we're still gonna have to retire.

Jodi Rosko 37:00

Yeah.

Mark Healy 37:01

So, you know, you may be having some cognitive issues, which they're denying also. Um, so or at least they maybe don't know they're having cognitive issues. So it's just a matter of just really being kind. Yeah. Being kind and just you they we all older drivers are better historians than they are fortune tellers. So I had this one gentleman, he was 97 years old, and before I even took off my coat in his house, he said, You know, young man, I've been driving for 90 years.

Jodi Rosko 37:38

Oh, since he was seven.

Mark Healy 37:40

I learned to drive a tractor on my grandfather's farm.

Jodi Rosko 37:44

Oh yeah.

Mark Healy 37:45

But as we got into the conversation, he didn't know the address of the house he lived in for 35 years. Yeah. He didn't, he didn't have he didn't he didn't have the cognitive ability to actually even take care of himself at home.

Jodi Rosko 38:00

Yeah.

Mark Healy 38:00

And his daughter was supporting him in that, but he was resistant to his daughter because his daughter was his daughter.

Jodi Rosko 38:08

Yeah, I I just I can't say enough in all of the things that third party uh expert can just help so much in in they can deliver the facts and then the family can just deliver the support.

Heather Fisher 38:22

Yeah. And it works so much better. Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 38:27

So you teach classes on this. So how would somebody go to one of your classes? Or or or you don't, or is that just you meet with them one-on-one?

Mark Healy 38:35

Well, we meet with them one-on-one. Um, we also do some public presentations. Okay. Uh we do some CEUs for healthcare providers, social workers, case managers, and nurses. Um, we're doing a presentation. Uh, if anyone's interested, we're doing a presentation through the Alzheimer's Association this Friday. Okay. We'll see you there. Yeah. Um at at uh Atrium Hospital. Um, and they're talking about uh just having that delicate conversation. Yeah. So my presentation is going to be how do the different um parts of the brain, people think of memory as being the only part, probably the that's important, yeah, but executive functioning is even a bigger part of that. And then so we'll talk about that, and then the last part of the talk will be how do you have that conversation? What are some signs that are indicating it's time to have that conversation? Or if I'm talking to the older adults, how to um you know, how to manage that. One of the things, if if the individual, if I think they're okay to drive, they're just at irregular, we'll also talk about how to prolong their safe driving years.

Jodi Rosko 39:54

Oh, okay.

Mark Healy 39:54

So we'll talk about the importance of exercise. Yeah. Uh there's a study out of Yale. This is a fascinating study out of Yale where they had two groups. One group they said, go home, do some stretching and walk. Nothing more than that. Stretching and walk. The other group they said, go home, do nothing more than you've been doing. They brought the groups back, and on a simulator, the group that did just stretching and walking scored 35% fewer errors on a simulated test. And the group that did nothing actually scored poorer over three months than the than the first time they did it. Just how powerful exercise is both for prolonging cognitive health and safe driving. Um, you know, and we'll also live in. Yeah, and we'll also just talk about some of the things to help modify, whether it's avoiding, you know, a lot of nighttime, avoiding highways, avoiding staying on roads that you're familiar with, um, you know, those type things uh just to help prolong that safe driving. But even those things, if there's cognitive issues or if they live long enough, right, they're gonna run it. They're all gonna retire from driving. We're all gonna retire. Hopefully.

Jodi Rosko 41:19

That's right. Hopefully. One way or another, but we are all gonna do that. Yes. So if somebody wanted to have you come out for an assessment, what would they where would they find you? What would they need to do?

Mark Healy 41:29

Um they could just reach out to us.

Heather Fisher 41:31

Um we'll put your information in the in the show notes with your um website and and your phone number. Great. Is this a program that is only available here in our area or is it nationwide um with senior care authorities? That's a great question.

Mark Healy 41:47

It's nationwide. Awesome. Um so if you know the parent, the adult children are hearing this and mom's in St. Louis or Cleveland or Florida. We got a boatload of senior care authorities in Florida. Yeah. Um, they all have the program. Okay, wonderful. Some of them don't do the driving portion. Okay. Um, probably most of them don't do the driving portion, but the they can still get some resources. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Jodi Rosko 42:14

Okay. Absolutely. I think it's I think it bringing it back to the very beginning, that story is so poignant. You know, you said his name's Matt, that you uh just having to tell people that somebody's passed away is just I mean, that's just you know how important it is, how important prevent. I I love that he saw that and did something with it because that is awful. It's just awful. You don't want to have your your loved one pass away, and you certainly don't want them to have had uh somebody else pass away because of them.

Mark Healy 42:48

Well, and the the scary statistic is if if there's if there's a car crash and there's a fatality, the chances of the the individual expiring in the car crash if they're 70 or older is three to five times. Then uh uh Matt uh tells a story about a gentleman that went left to center. He was picking up his something off the floor, went left to center, and uh the 80-year-old and the 85-year-old in the car that they ran into, they died. But the 24-year-old walked away from the accident. It's it's basically the frailty of the older driver.

Jodi Rosko 43:32

Yeah, yeah.

Heather Fisher 43:33

Well, thank you for coming and sharing on such an important topic with us today. We appreciate it and definitely encourage anybody that is seeing those signs that it might be time to retire from driving to reach out and get some more information. So for sure. We will be back next week with another episode of the Downsizing Roadmap Podcast. And thanks for listening. Thanks so much.

Mark Healy 43:56

Thank you, ladies.

Heather Fisher 43:57

Thanks for joining us on the Downsizing Roadmap Podcast. If you found this episode helpful, be sure to subscribe, leave us a review, and share it with someone who might need a little downsizing inspiration. Have questions or ideas for future episodes? Reach out to us on our website, www.downsizingroadmap.com. Until next time, let's keep simplifying and moving forward.